Blue Iris

Re: Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-23T16:42:46+00:00

Thanks for the advise and feedback.
We shelved the AMD CPU and board for another time and purchased an i7-12700K, ASRock Z690 Extreme WiFi 6E, 64G DDR, 24port 400Watt POE, a case, cooling and other accessories. Hikvision seems to have a good reputation so we will probably go with recommended cameras like the Hikvision 2CD2385G1-I 2.8mm 4K .

The reason we are all over the place on this project is that I'm retired, but have greenhouses that were used in a nursery business. This project was started to assist a family member, a neighbor, and an acquaintance. Then along came Covid19 and the need for outdoor activities caused this thing to blow up. There were 3 and now there are 12 + a couple of volunteers. If things go back to normal, what we are doing will be overkill.

If we ever do expand into growing cannabis we will purchase another separate system and likely have it professionally installed. I and others were thinking medical grade CBD, but as was brought up, it could be mistaken for recreational cannabis and put people in danger. It could also cause some our supporters to reconsider.

Again Thank you for all the feedback.

Statistics: Posted by ghostwriter — Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:42 pm

Re: Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-21T14:34:40+00:00

Morning.
Have you made decision on this project?
Video security is not something to skimp on considering the recent injury which occurred in your Ghouse.
Adding GPU to a machine with plenty of resources does not have to break the bank. many great ideas throughout threads on this site however we forget about used or refurbed machines available out there.
There are many, for example, Dell T5810/5820 workstations loaded with DDR 32GB and up, E5-1620/1630v4 Xeon processors, AMD FirePro W5100 W7100 WX7100 GPU on board. the T5820 has a flex bay to accommodate NVME, T5810 NVME adaptors also available however not needed although we use them in large system applications. a simple SSD for boot and BI5 with additional 1TB WD blue for temp storage will be great. these machines can be found on EBay from reliable sellers even authorized refurb folks for under $500.00. you would need to add the 2nd drive.
Synology DS1821+ 8 bay NAS use any HDD. we use WD purple generally but for smaller projects or for cost savings we have clients purchase used Purple drives or they pick their own. liability of this isn't bad when things are in writing.

NEVER skimp on the switch. I would never use Netgear Linksys Etc. you can pick up a used Aruba JL684A 370w 24pt. though it is L2 and considered light L3 there's not much config to do if you do not understand networking/ routing. give it an IP address and run it. you can pick one up for under $600.00

Never skimp on cabling patch panels or patch cables though you don't have to purchase the most expensive, either. shielded cabling is best bet period. we have proven it over the decades via Fluke DTX and Versiv. though video quality speaks for itself when cabling is done right.

You mentioned 5-8Mp cams. Hikvision 2CD2385G1-I 2.8mm 4K Outdoor Darkfighter will push full 8mp if power and comm is plentiful. this model can be installed with or without its "conduit" or splice box. part # can be found on Hikvision USA. $136.00 on EBay and can be found on Amazon if you dig.

there is an OEM non labeled version of this camera on EBay and Amazon for $119.00 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082H ... =UTF8&th=1
Just installed 25 of this with conduit mounting boxes outdoors, some in all day direct sun though it's not summer temps they rock. we can crank them up and watch the streams, network usage, bits bytes and all details with our tools. they have been flawless for 3 weeks now.

Granted it is humid and can become warm in Ghouses we have installed the Hikvision version in many Ghouses. have been in service since this cam was available, still flawless.

We do consider the cameras calling home or may try to so we put the cams on their own network. add additional NIC in the server and no issues. don't skimp on the NIC cost but doesn't have to be top of the line either. We use single 4 port secondary NIC and team them to have steady bandwidth.

Router also is consideration for performance, off-shelf consumer grade no bueno. Pick up a Cisco ISR or ASA at minimum. Hire someone to config for you. we do provide all of the above items, pre-configured and available remote support. If you're running out of $ at this point I suggest TpLink https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087Q ... UTF8&psc=1
This product has multi-core main processor and a secondary processor as well with 2gb memory. its throughput is amazing. this is a cheap router, not commercial but it smokes any of the Nighthawk routers. we know this because we have all of the commercial network testing goodies and can watch the action.

All in all

Dell T5810 with W5100 E51620v4 256GB SSD with win10 pro we can get for $500.00 or less with warranty. our cost mind you
4 port NIC, up to $125.00
Aruba JL684AABA $400.00
Hik cams mentioned above 16 x $136.00 -$2176.00
BI 5 $60.00 + -

Just my typical small project experience.
Best of luck to you

Statistics: Posted by FEXTtrace — Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:34 pm

Re: Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-20T19:14:23+00:00

There are many posts here along the same line. And, helpful replies.
Search is your friend.

Statistics: Posted by MikeBwca — Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:14 pm

Re: Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-20T05:46:09+00:00

Ryzen 7 5700G will easily handle Blue Iris.

Is the need for Intel QuickSync still a thing these days, now that Blue Iris works with substreams?

An AMD 4500u-based machine I look after consumes 15 watts (not a typo!) from the wall while recording seven 3.9-megapixel cameras. It is a mini desktop PC with a laptop-class CPU. CPU usage is about 8%.

Another system I monitor has a Ryzen 5 2400G with 19 cameras, most of them 3.9 megapixels. It is at 12% CPU usage but also has four virtual machines running (the virtual machines are likely idling right now).

Blue Iris doesn't need much memory. The 2400G system mentioned above has 4GB left over for Blue Iris with the virtual machines running.

I like to run multiple data drives, with each drive recording a specific group of the cameras. I format them with large 2MB clusters to significantly reduce fragmentation. I no longer use the "cascading" storage method, where your video files move from one drive to the next as they age. Avoid hard drives that use SMR recording technology.

Statistics: Posted by josephclemente — Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:46 am

Re: Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-07T22:54:36+00:00

Re contact BI: I will but the feed back here gives me info to ask relevant questions. Also to go over what we really need.

Statistics: Posted by ghostwriter — Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:54 pm

Re: Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-07T22:44:44+00:00

Thank you all

PTZ / I couldn't find PTX Makes sense though we don't know if we have the best position. Work performance is not monitored

I saw a reference to a user database I'll search for it.

"If you are using AMD without a compatible GPU then you are stuck in the worst case number one."
This is why we were wondering about the CPU - AMD Ryzen 7 5700G Review: Fastest Integrated Graphics Ever https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/am ... 00g-review
But if it's not supported, it's not supported

"If you have the hardware already, I would throw it all in a case, slap in an SSD as the main boot drive and see how it goes."
I have the cpu, board, and drives. Everything else from the syst was repurposed.

"The real question is how do you plan to utilize the PTZ cams if the system isn’t going to be manned? Some people use their static cams as spotter cams and then get the PTZ to move to that location or do your PTZs have auto-track." There are no plans for auto track. We don't monitor for performance but since we are replacing the system the subject of PTZ came up because there have been a few personality conflicts.

Statistics: Posted by ghostwriter — Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:44 pm

Re: Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-07T22:19:15+00:00

I maybe should’ve gone into a little more detail about our business. We are a greenhouse operation (vegetable) that primarily hires people with challenges. Most likely we will file for 501 status this year.
What’s driving this is that an employee had a seizure that resulted in a serious wound on his head. The family wanted to sue but fortunately he didn’t.

Regardless of being able to write it off or not your points on the equipment are still valid, and we intend to spend the money to make sure people don’t get hurt and we can answer questions. $1500 has been allocated to the purchase of an NVR and associated hardware. $1000 a quarter has been budgeted for adding new cameras and replacing the existing cameras. Having said that, we don't want to spend money that doesn't provide value as other safety measures are also needed.

We have eight existing cameras that are 1080 - We didn’t know the NVR wasn’t working until we tried to pull the footage.

The RAID point is a good one. We were wondering if RAID 5 was appropriate or to go with pooling drives. None of us are experts on this stuff. In other words, we understand what the technology is but don’t know whether or not it should be implemented.

You bring up another good point with expansion. If cannabis becomes legal in this state we probably will expand.

The board has Wi-Fi but probably won’t be used for more than three cameras. The current camera locations are wired cat6. The new locations would probably be wired cat 7

Gen 4 nvme I’ll check on that

We can do 128G I think that is max on that board. I'll have to look.

On western digital versus Seagate. We’re only paying a couple hundred dollars each for these drives so WD it is.

This system itself will be a dedicated system. We don’t have any plans to put anything else on it.

Statistics: Posted by ghostwriter — Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:19 pm

Re: Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-07T21:49:10+00:00

You don’t need a graphics card to run BI, the intel CPUs have the advantage that BI can use the hardware acceleration to off load some of the load but you can lower the load on the CPU by using substreams so having an intel CPU is not super critical.

BI doesn’t have a large memory footprint so your 64Gb will be more than enough.

If you have the hardware already, I would throw it all in a case, slap in an SSD as the main boot drive and see how it goes.

The real question is how do you plan to utilise the PTZ cams if the system isn’t going to be manned? Some people use their static cams as spotter cams and then get the PTZ to move to that location or do your PTZs have auto-track.

Let us know how you get on, wish I had some money spare to get a decent PTZ or 2 as I’d love to have a play around with them [emoji3]

Statistics: Posted by IAmATeaf — Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:49 pm

Re: Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-07T21:06:56+00:00

In summary of my previous posts, I think you would be MUCH better off just buying a new intel based computer from a modern generation.

Then a GPU would not add any value to your use case at all.

Statistics: Posted by HeneryH — Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:06 pm

Re: Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-07T21:03:47+00:00

On the graphics card, there are three levels of configuration:

1) running all video decompression using the main CPU. Worse case.
2)
3) running all video decompression using the on-board quick-sync Intel GPU. Obviously only on Intel chips. This is bar far the best performing and power efficient.

One and three were the only two options for a long while and therefore users of BI were almost forced to use intel CPUs.

Somewhere in BI5 the developer coded in the ability to take advantage of one specific brand of add-on GPU. I forget that brand now.

So now you have

1) running all video decompression using the main CPU. Worse case.
2) Using X brand GPU. Much better than one but not as good as three
3) running all video decompression using the on-board quick-sync Intel GPU. Obviously only on Intel chips. This is bar far the best performing and power efficient.

If you are using AMD without a compatible GPU then you are stuck in the worst case number one.

Statistics: Posted by HeneryH — Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:03 pm

Re: Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-07T20:58:33+00:00

Memory has never been a limiting factor with BI for me. I wouldn't go overboard on memory unless you have problems. There is a user database out there with lots of user data on how many mp/s sec their systems run and what CPU/Mem they are using.

Statistics: Posted by HeneryH — Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:58 pm

Re: Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-07T20:55:01+00:00

My two cents too...

PTZ and Varifocal are great for getting the frame just right. BUT, very much less useful for PTZ during normal ops. Set them up with the PTX then leave them at that setting.

I find that disk space is cheaper then you might think and keeping data around for more than x weeks looses value SO, I would record 24x7 and use the motion alerts as markers into the stream and alerting people. An in between is to record the sub-stream at night and switch to primary stream on alert.

Statistics: Posted by HeneryH — Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:55 pm

Re: Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-07T20:44:59+00:00

A few thoughts...

It sounds like you have a serious financial reason for doing this. Each configuration has unique reequipments. Being a business, I would recommend getting professional help. Contact Blue Iris Support, and see if they can help you in this.

Throwing that to the wind, I'd say (my 2cents)...

- With 16 5-8mp cameras on Wifi... you may have a problem with ll these on Wifi. POE is the way to go.

- Get more than 16 port POE. You'll most likely want to add more cameras, or other IP devices. You can also use the extra POE ports to string additional IP cables at alternate locations to quickly move cameras around, without re-stringing.

- Motherboard. Sounds fine. Get the best you can. Look for ones with Nvme Gen4 slots.

- 64gig memory... awesome! Can you do 128gig! 512gig? After all, it is a business expense, and you should be able to write it off on taxes.

- Drives. The WD Purples will work. I've used them, but switched to Seagate Skyhawk's. It all depends on which side of the fence your on.

- M2 memory. Are you referring to Nvme's? My MB has 2 Nvme slots, 1 Gen3 and 1 Gen4. I purchased 2 Gen3 Nvme's, and used them for the C & D drives. The difference in OS speeds and access times are incredible! Much faster than the SSD's, and no comparison from HD's.

- Storage. With h.264, and h.265, you'll realize much smaller .bvr files, and you can store much more on those spinning platters. Are you going to raid the 4 12tb Purples?

On my system, I run BI with 8 Cameras, 5 clones, and a weather camera. And still run StarCraft, listen to music, browse the web, and, run 2 Virtual machines - all at the same time without and lag. So, your system sounds like it would be very good for just BI!
I use a program called 'Process Lasso' to prioritize BI process & storage I/O over the other processes.

Notes:
- Having the OS on a Nvme will make the system much faster and responsive. And, 64gig of memory will defiantly help. BUT, BI will only be as fast as the slowest device... which are the mechanical HD's. When I switch from HD's to SSD's (I have 3 2tb Seagate 120's raided 0), BI responsiveness when scrubbing the timeline is virtually instantaneous. With the HD's, there would be slights lags when scrubbing back and forth. The largest SSD out now that I recently saw is 8tb! 4-8 of them raided 0 would give you 32-64tb! (Remember, business write off)
- You may want to get a few more cameras to put up (connected or not) - so that it appears you have cameras everywhere.
An example, go to a Target store. Lookup. Notice all those domes on the ceiling? Each one is a camera! Walmart even has 180 degree cameras on the shelving in some areas, like the cold & flue section!!!

Statistics: Posted by MikeBwca — Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:44 pm

Build questions for 16 camera setup

2022-01-07T20:46:04+00:00

After nearly getting sued we have decided to upgrade our security camera system. We've been looking at systems similar to Hikvision DS-7716NXI-I4/16P/ and DS-7616NXI-I2/16P/

The goal is (16) 5 to 8mp cameras with (4) PTZ and (2) vari focal. We would like for 11 of the cameras to record full time from 6am to 6pm and transition to motion detection at night. The rest would be full time motion activated. The cameras don't need to be monitored unless something happens.

from another project I have these donor parts

ASUS ROG Strix B550-F with WiFi 6 AM4 socket and PCIe 4.0
Amd ryzen 7 5700G cpu
(4) 12Tb WD121PURZ drives
OS win 10 pro (have OEM license already)

everything else was stripped from the board so the rest will need to be purchased.

Questions:
1 the 1st question is can those components be used as a starting point?
2 will I be able to run off the cpu graphics at least temporarily given the state of the gpu market?
3 looking at Netgear 16-Port 183W PoE/PoE+ any opinions on that?

This is a new idea for me, but seems more flexible than a purpose built NVR

Any info or suggestions are appreciated.

Edit: removed 2 questions as they were answered elsewhere The biggie is still running w/o a graphics card

Statistics: Posted by ghostwriter — Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:10 pm