Blue Iris

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-12-07T21:59:43+00:00

Have been curious about your endeavor and appreciate the follow up. Good stuff.

Curiosity also got the best of me and I bought a Tapo C110 to play with. I've found the experience quite the opposite from yours. The size of the app being a consideration for the desired end result was of no consequence either way in my situation. The process of obtaining complete autonomous control of the camera with or without the app consisted of simply registering the device with a single connection to the vendor -- presumably to activate what is a very generous two year warranty and not necessarily anything else (if the camera is to be used in a literal CCTV environment) along with the secondary step (and important one) to establish the RTSP login credential of the camera itself as the ONVIF piece for interfacing with third party operations. No internet required and no app necessary to manage the device thereafter...., for twenty bucks a pop and decent Wi-Fi to boot. BTW, the TP-Link app does a lot. It can handle all their stuff including both the Tapo and Kasa product lines. One of the more complete and intuitive efforts out there these days..., especially when it come to simple cheapie cam setups.

I'm keeping mine. Works great as a flu temp monitor for my wood burning furnace and I can control it from any ONVIF managemnt platform including my Amcrest XVRs. Drops right into Blue Iris and looks pretty good at 2K with perfectly acceptable night viewing for the purpose.

Good luck with your project and likewise for the Holiday Wishes.

Statistics: Posted by Pogo — Thu Dec 07, 2023 9:59 pm

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-12-07T21:24:31+00:00

Just posting to tie up the thread.

Two foscams came back to life with just power supplies, this lowered the urgency and gave me some time to test. ANYONE WITH A FOSCAM WITH A SOLID RED LIGHT, CHECK YOUR POWER SUPPLY as counterintuitive as that sounds.

Have not tested extensively but bench testing results are as follows (bench testing closely resembles on-site testing, no Internet).

1) Found some killer Black Friday deal on the SVBC "HD Camera" list on the 'zon as "SV3C WiFi Camera Outdoor, 1080P ONVIF Conformance Two-Way Audio Security Camera, Motion Detection IP Cameras, Night Vision Surveillance Alarm Cam for Indoor Outdoor, Support Max 128GB SD Card Record", got these for $35 each (bought two). Has pigtails for power/ethernet. Attached Ethernet cable and powered it on and it DHCPd from my test machine, I browsed to it using admin/admin and am able to configure IP and SSID etc. Very happy, no app needed at all. These cameras seem to be metal, solid and heavy. I hope the internal components are as high quality as the outside is, but these are so cheap I guess I won't expect too much.

2) Am also keeping the Amcrest mentioned in previous post, works well. Configured with no Internet or app.

3) The TP-Link Tapo just annoyed me from the start. First, the app is over 260MB apk download. Huge. A quarter of a gig for a camera app? WTF? Second, as soon as I run the app it immediately wants me to set up an account with no option. Now I understand that MAYBE just doing a one-time signup on their app may have allowed me to configure the camera on site without further Internet, that just annoyed me so much that I'm just sending it back because I can use Amcrest and SV3C and not have to deal with an app AT ALL both NOW and in the future. It's also possible that even after signup it may have required the camera go online like others do, not sure. it's going back to Amazon. TP_link, if you're reading this, make your app able to configure the camera WITHOUT needing to sign up for those of us who use these without Internet. Or make the camera have an Ethernet to configure it through.

That's it, thanks for the help all. I likely won't be back unless I need more help unfortunately. Just being honest. I don't work with cameras much and the Blue Iris software seems to be very intuitive and seems to just work well so I don't expect to need help there. Good product.

Have a good holiday.

Statistics: Posted by GaryBlanston — Thu Dec 07, 2023 9:24 pm

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-11-29T19:10:37+00:00

Go Gary Go !

Statistics: Posted by TimG — Wed Nov 29, 2023 7:10 pm

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-11-29T15:50:34+00:00

Residual braincell activity from the OSI Model Layer 1 section of a 1998 CCNA course? LOL

(I think I still have the entire series on VHS buried in a closet somewhere..., in case I might need it again someday.)

Statistics: Posted by Pogo — Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:50 pm

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-11-28T22:19:17+00:00

Crossover Ethernet cable, not heard or used one of those cables for years [emoji3]

Statistics: Posted by IAmATeaf — Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:19 pm

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-11-28T21:04:23+00:00

OK, I would still suggest there is a lot of misunderstanding, maybe not with you specifically. But in your case, I would never buy those cameras. LAN setup and Onvif only for me.

I agree, there's just something not right about having a security camera REQUIRE phoning home for ANYTHING. Optional user <-> Cloud stuff is fine as an option, just shouldn't be required.

Amcrest arrived and decided to test it instead of just sending back. Also ordered 2 other different brand of cameras based on the above advice (and they were so cheap on Cyber Monday), will post results of those as well.

Pogo, thank you for that link, will review. Will be hoarding all this information.

But testing Amcrest and am liking the setup so far. Works great zero Internet.

On a bench, using crossover Ethernet cable and a standalone DHCP server app on the laptop, plugged laptop into camera's Ethernet and powered it on where it immediately DHCP'd from my portable DHCP server and I then immediately was able to browse to the interface and do full configuration. Just how it should be. No app. No cloud communication "required". This laptop is not on the Internet. It appears that I can add the SSID's and other information from that web interface as well, so I should be able to even pre-configure these. Once they ping I'll then work on getting the BI streams going on site.

Also wanted to note that so far 2 of the Foscam cameras were actually not broken, they had bad power supplies. It threw me off because with a bad power supply the Foscam would light just its red light and never POST. I was thinking that a bad power supply would be obvious with no power at all, but in 2 cases right here I have 2 Foscams that sit with a red light on their bad power supplies but work JUST FINE with a known good power supply. Strange.

Still will be testing the cameras though. They're already ordered.

I will get each one running with BI and let you all know how well it worked.

Will post results here, especially since you all were so helpful to me.

Statistics: Posted by GaryBlanston — Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:04 pm

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-11-28T19:30:46+00:00

I'm guessing there are some miscommunications with respect to requiring internet. More likely there require an IP Network and a LAN sans WAN would be OK.
Unfortunately there is no confusion on this point. I am a network engineer with Cisco certifications. Phone app absolutely requires Internet before the app allows progression to configuration of the camera, even requires signup. Then app will talk to the Camera, begin to configure it, join it to the chosen SSID, DHCPs and instructs the camera to phone home but on failure to contact mothership the config reverts and states failure with no other options. The camera cannot be configured UNLESS and UNTIL the camera phones home at least once, which will not be practical for installation OR maintenance.

OK, I would still suggest there is a lot of misunderstanding, maybe not with you specifically. But in your case, I would never buy those cameras. LAN setup and Onvif only for me.

Statistics: Posted by HeneryH — Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:30 pm

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-11-28T03:16:06+00:00

A bit of curiosity turned up a great thread over on ipct about the Tapo cams with a reference to the Amcrest 841 even thrown in for good measure. Neither require internet access for initial configuration or subsequent operation, including ongoing communication with their respective phone apps in a wi-fi environmment. Very cool. I may order a couple now just because! LOL

A perfect thread for your purpose. Could almost have been started by you...

https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/blue-iris ... ity.66946/

Statistics: Posted by Pogo — Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:16 am

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-11-28T01:46:38+00:00

I'm guessing there are some miscommunications with respect to requiring internet. More likely there require an IP Network and a LAN sans WAN would be OK.

Unfortunately there is no confusion on this point. I am a network engineer with Cisco certifications. Phone app absolutely requires Internet before the app allows progression to configuration of the camera, even requires signup. Then app will talk to the Camera, begin to configure it, join it to the chosen SSID, DHCPs and instructs the camera to phone home but on failure to contact mothership the config reverts and states failure with no other options. The camera cannot be configured UNLESS and UNTIL the camera phones home at least once, which will not be practical for installation OR maintenance.

Statistics: Posted by GaryBlanston — Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:46 am

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-11-28T01:36:06+00:00

Wow thank you ALL for all the information, it is greatly appreciated.

In a bit of a rush at the moment because I'm going to order 3 different cameras now based on the above information to get today's Cyber Monday pricing.

I will update soon, but I really appreciate the information. It is HUGELY helpful!

I promise to update once I get some progress.

Statistics: Posted by GaryBlanston — Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:36 am

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-11-27T23:44:42+00:00

These little guys are ONVIF compliant RTSP bargains at around $25 this weekend and don't require internet access once configured for their permanent ennvironment. 2.4g only, but for the price and features still an incredible value. There is also a PT version, though reportedly a challenge to get the PT features working smoothly via BI.

https://www.amazon.com/indoor-pet-wifi- ... TLP25&th=1

The key to something like this or any of the cheaper proprietary solutions trying to sell value added cloud services (with the associated reliance) is to simply register them accordingly, get them up on the local wi-fi network SSID and dhcp server by whatever app is provided, set an IP reservation in the dhcp server/router for the MAC address of the device and install them anywhere not having 'phone home' capability -- provided they're ONVIF devices and can tread water without a life jacket.

You then have a standalone ONVIF bargain that can be easily integrated with Blue Iris.

edit: The first link was for the PT version. This one is for the C110 that I was initially referring to. $37 for a pair of em! LOL Simply amazing.

https://www.amazon.com/smart-indoor-sec ... r=8-3&th=1

Statistics: Posted by Pogo — Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:44 pm

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-11-27T03:09:15+00:00

EDIT: found a few references that Amcrest is indeed related to Foscam. Amcrest is out.

Basically was hoping users would throw out some makes/models of cameras they know would work here.

Amcrest is basically OEM Dahua domestically (USA) and has very little to do with Foscam these days other than evolving from Foscam USA some years ago to become Amcrest. They offer a variety of relatively high quality reliable products that would be perfectly suitable for your purpose..., which out of curiosity, is?

The isolotion requirement of the camera system from any network whatsoever obviously begs the question above. If isolation is an actual requirement for security reasons there are certainly other more suitable options than Blue Iris..., unless of course Blue Iris will be (or already is) an integrated system controller (or responding to one) on a larger production network, or both. Otherwise, a combination DVR/NVR (XVR) may also be a solution to consider. I happen to have two such Amcrest units integrated into my Blue Iris server / network for use with both legacy and modern analog cameras as a matter of economy and flexibility. They will also accomodate a variety of IP cameras from Reolink to Wyze if you understand how to effectively utilize the feature and available bandwidth of the units themselves. No outside network required and it doesn't get much more secure than old school analog, but we are talking wired. And before anyone scoffs at analog, the technology is still evolving and is still quite economical to implement. Given a capable enough DVR/NVR combination, 4K/8MP is perfectly achievable at 20fps and Amcrest makes a very nice example of both 4K DVR and 4K analog camera.

But back on track...

I would exlpore the Amcrest IP product line further. The 841B may be just the ticket -- or close. The IP*M is their standalone ONVIF prosumer/professional line. Their consumer line is Amcrest Smart Home which relies on everything you don't want in a professional network in order to function within their ASH ecosystem. That said, their ASH stuff can be integrated with third party platforms (BI included) after initially being setup by their Smart Home software and some creativity. The ASH21B may be worth a look as a super economical 2.4gHz option as well. There's also the ASH41 with an enhanced feature set if you haven't run across both already.
https://www.amazon.com/Amcrest-Monitor- ... D_BwE&th=1

Then there's the WyzeCam v.3 incorporating the wz_mini_hack if you are a bit adventurous. It all runs from a mini SD card with no modification at all to the camera firmware. Easy to detach from the Wyze ecosystem (after being registered) as a standalone RTSP device and works great with Blue Iris. I use several with great results for their intended purposes. Amazing night time performance. Easy to add an external antenna for greatly enhanced 2.4gHz performance, but also work fairly well with the internal antenna in a fairly clean RF space. (They can also be used as POE/USB/ETH devices with an appropriate micro USB to ethernet adapter.)

If POE may be an option somewhere down the road, this is a reasonably priced basic workhorse as an example. I have one. Rock solid. Nice image and video. Reasonable (above average) night time performance. A very good value. https://www.amazon.com/Amcrest-Security ... D_BwE&th=1

There are obviously other vendors out there worth a look. 5gHz may be a stretch within the indicated budget considerations, but 2.4 can be very, very crowded and unreliable..., especially mesh systems. If that's what's in place, you may want to also consider an exclusive 2.4 network and/or channel (or channels) for wi-fi access point camera operatiions. Many will tell you to never use wi-fi in a serious surveillance environment. I'm not one of them and successfully use both 2.4gHz and 5gHz on my network with equal reliability as the wired network. You just need to know how and not have unrealistic expectations of 'plug and play' in a crowded RF environment.

Sorry for the length and ramble. I didn't get out much today. LOL

Statistics: Posted by Pogo — Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:09 am

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-11-26T21:37:15+00:00

I'm guessing there are some miscommunications with respect to requiring internet. More likely there require an IP Network and a LAN sans WAN would be OK.

Statistics: Posted by HeneryH — Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:37 pm

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-11-26T21:17:26+00:00

Many users are chasing mega pixels, so enquiring on 720p cameras is not likely to get many responses in 2023. You will still be able to get 2MP cameras (1080p) with adjustable main and sub-stream resolutions, and they can go quite low.

Onvif or a RTSP feed should mean no internet is required during setup, and you should be able to test this elsewhere by logging into the cameras default IP address with a web browser rather than an app. Any camera with a specific app is likely to make you need an internet connection; I think the Amcrest ASH series are guilty of this, and I'm not sure about Eufy. You MAY need BI5 if the BI4 installation doesn't have the stream parameters for the newer cameras, but then you may be able to simply write them in.

Statistics: Posted by TimG — Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:17 pm

Re: Simple question for an odd situation

2023-11-26T19:12:56+00:00

Another Dahua user and I’ve never really tried any others so the least expert you can find [emoji3]

Dahua do a range of cams so maybe have a look at their range?

Statistics: Posted by IAmATeaf — Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:12 pm